Engagement Shift: From Gaming To Action – A Conversation with Glenn Gillis and Charles Gasper

In my recent discussion with Glenn Gillis, CEO of Sea Monster Games, which streamed on LinkedIn Live and Twitch, we discussed how games can effect positive change, on both a personal as well as global level. As someone with decades of experience in the social sector, I’ve always been intrigued by various ways to affect social impact.  

We’re continuing the conversation as we reflect on the refreshing ideas that emerged for how games can transform awareness into real, actionable impact. 

On A New Way to Engage 

Glenn? Welcome to my blog. 

Glenn: In our conversation, I introduced the idea of “failing safely”. Mistakes lead to growth and games allow players to explore complex problems in a safe space, where they can experiment, fail, and try again. This concept redefines engagement and opens up possibilities for social programs to incorporate games not just as a tool for awareness but as spaces for people to practice new behaviors in a meaningful way. 

Charles: Hearing this, I can’t help but wonder how many traditional programs could benefit from this mindset. What if, instead of viewing change as a linear process with “success” as the end goal, we incorporated room for safe failures that allowed people to learn through experience? It struck me that games could offer a dynamic, interactive way to engage participants in ongoing behavioral change, which traditional approaches often struggle to achieve. 

On The Potential for Measurable Impact 

Charles: In my field, demonstrating an intervention’s impact can be challenging, especially with traditional media. Games, however, offer built-in measurability, tracking each player’s choices, retries, and progress.  

Glenn:  Games offer all the benefits of any digital platform in providing data and insights into what’s working, where traffic flows are coming from, how long users engage with specific elements, etc. Critically, they also provide a mechanism to explicitly ask users for their thoughts on a particular subject, which makes them an extremely useful source of both qualitative and quantitative data. For example, we can use gamification principles to increase response rates. What really sets games apart, though, is that they also offer emergent insights based on how people play the games and the decisions they make. No other media offers this ability to directly provide a mechanism to measure underlying character traits or perhaps even real-world behavior.  

Charles: Games offer funders and program implementers real-time data and progress indicators, allowing us to see change as it happens rather than relying on post-program surveys. This opens up exciting possibilities: imagine adjusting a game-based intervention based on immediate data, even tailoring it to each player. Games could thus become truly person-centered tools, using live feedback to enhance effectiveness for each individual. 

On Games as Empathy Machines 

Charles: A powerful idea from our conversation was games as “empathy machines.” The role-playing aspect uniquely lets players “walk in someone else’s shoes,” an immersive experience that’s invaluable for exploring diverse perspectives and experiences. 

Glenn: As so many learning specialists and social behavior change experts tell us, truly sustainable solutions require the social-emotional learning elements of any particular issue to be addressed. So for example we can teach people the definition of entrepreneurship and all the related technical skills, but the best indicators of success are actually things like resilience, emotional intelligence or whatever. Quite simply, games are the only way to measure and influence these things at scale and in a way that has a 2-way data exchange.  

Charles: Games provide a unique, structured way to practice empathy, immersing players in decision-making scenarios where they directly experience the impact of their choices. This ability to foster empathy makes games a powerful tool for social sector training and intervention, breaking down silos and deepening understanding—much like the Poverty Simulator, but with broader possibilities. They offer not just a glimpse into the “what” and “how,” but a visceral experience of the “why.” 

On The Flexibility of Games in Social Programs 

Glenn: Games are extremely versatile, complementing other social interventions. In our conversation we highlighted examples like using virtual reality games to help burn victims manage pain—a simple yet effective intervention that complements clinical treatments. This flexibility allows games could be integrated into larger program portfolios, rather than being viewed as standalone tools. 

Charles: Games could work as the “glue” that holds a range of interventions together, providing continuity and ongoing engagement between touchpoints. It’s an intuitive way to think about social impact: as a journey rather than a one-time intervention. This idea of games as continuous, engaging experiences has me thinking about the untapped potential within social programs. Perhaps, with the right design, games could help bridge gaps that traditional interventions struggle to fill. 

On Embracing Evaluation in the World of Games 

Charles: As an evaluator, I was particularly struck by your perspective on using data within games to measure outcomes in real-time. For years, I’ve been focused on finding ways to show impact through traditional evaluation techniques. But the ability to gather insights directly from players’ in-game behavior opens up new opportunities.  

Glenn: If a modern definition of learning is the ability to do something you couldn’t do before (as opposed to know something I didn’t before) then games offer a unique way to not only measure but also influence actions we deem to be positive. Critically though, they can also allow us a meaningful glimpse into underlying motivation, character traits and much more that truly help us measure what matters, not just the traditional proxies we have had to rely on until now. 

Charles: This type of evaluation is seamless, embedded directly into the player’s experience. Games don’t just allow for evaluation; they integrate it as a core function. In this way, games are actually creating a new language for measuring social impact, one that promises to prove more insightful and precise than traditional methods. 

Final Reflections 

Charles:  Games are more than just entertainment; they are powerful tools that can inspire empathy, track real-time change, and integrate seamlessly into larger social programs. As we look ahead, I believe games could reshape how we approach complex social challenges, from health to education to community engagement. 

Glenn: Games are the world’s favorite media (so our users are already there), and the intentional design of games to drive behavior change is well-researched, and is underpinned by solid science. We need to move beyond proofs-of-concept, because games are truly cost effective at scale, can inspire behavior change, and can give us the data to validate that what we’re doing is working, or tweak the things that aren’t. No other media comes close to offering these same benefits. And if we recognize the urgency of the challenges we face surely it is time to embrace the science and art of game design if we are to find truly effective solutions that actually deliver real world value.  

Our conversation reinforced and further informed my view of the use of games to affect social change. I’m looking forward to continuing this journey, exploring how games can complement and enhance traditional interventions, and sharing more reflections as we push the boundaries of what’s possible in evaluation. 

I want to thank Glenn Gillis of Sea Monster Games for joining me in both our conversation and this joint blog. I hope our reflections offer a glimpse into the potential of games to drive meaningful social impact. Please watch for future shows on TCC’s LinkedIn Live and Twitch Channel, as well as follow-up blog posts, as I delve deeper into these topics with Glenn and other guests. There’s much more to discover in this exciting intersection of gaming and social change. 

If you’re exploring innovative ways to drive positive social change, connect with us to discuss how games might enhance your efforts. We’d be happy to discuss how gaming can support your work. 

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